Of course, from the other angle, it's just as difficult for an adult convert to 'enter' the Church after being in and of the secular world for their entire lives. By the same token, they are also leaving behind the 'familiar', including friends and family relationships and entering a place where, still, there might not be answers for every concern, or guarantees.

The difficult part is the transition, and it applies in both directions.

The 'easy road' referred to, is in relation to being inside or outside the gospel objectively, without any transition from one to another coming into consideration. From that respect I think it is still harder to be a faithful member, than not to be a faithful member, because the latter is the 'norm' in society and its easier to fit in no matter what your 'not being a faithful member' entails.

Granted this still depends on your definition of 'easy' and 'hard' as a life without meaning, direction, or peace (through knowledge of the Atonement and repentance) could just as easily be considered 'hard', as one might consider a life with relative morals and more quote-unquote 'freedom' to be 'easy'.

I have always thought I was sympathetic to those who left, and I still think I am, but I was recently a part of a gathering that made me think about this again. This gathering consisted of every version of Mormon you can imagine (post, present and future). Included were a few excommunicated members who attend Church because they have testimonies and had been exed for actions they felt they needed to stand by and were not sins. Anyway, so I wondered, for the first time, how these people (few as they may be) who WANT Church membership and are denied it feel about people who just walk away.

I don't know.

Spectator--
I'm not sure. I certainly can't speak for all those who fall into this category. I suspect that since these people stand so firmly by what they believe that they would equally respect those who walk away because they no longer believe. Especially considering the fact that those in this category would "claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

Baron-
You make great points. It does depend on our definitions of "easy" and "hard." And yes, I guess I'm coming from the standpoint that it is actually easier (regardless of the sacrifices) to have purpose and to feel confident in knowing who you are, where you came from and where you are going than to not.

I am sorry I have been a bit contrary lately. Maybe it is because I am turning 41 this weekend. I'm getting old and cranky. But I have a problem with this also.

I have a bit of a hard time with those who claim to leave for belief issues. And it is unfortunate if they suffer from any social 'ills' from leaving the church. Such a thing should not be, but it is a problem with the people involved.

But those who leave based on belief issues should not expect things to be easy. What do they not believe?

Do they not believe in God anymore. Sorry, life will be more difficult if you stop believing in God. And what do you base this new lack of belief on anyway? Have you proven there is no God?

Do they not believe in Christ as the Savior anymore? Sorry, life will be more difficult if you stop believing in the Savior. Death now has a sting, and sins will remain.

Do they not believe in modern prophets? Sorry, life will be more difficult without modern prophets. Best wishes.

Do they not believe in the restoration of priesthood authority? Gee, that sort of separates us from many blessings. I suppose life will get harder without that.

Do they not believe in the Plan of Salvation? Hmmmm. Life will probably loose some meaning for you then, thats difficult.

Do they have some problem with some of the more practical counsel the church teaches? Well, it is pretty good advice for most folks, and it helps them. But these things are probably not worth giving up the above for.

I guess I am having a hard time feeling sorry for these people. Sure, life will be more difficult without the gospel in your life. What did they expect?

Cranky 41-year-old indeed.

"I have a hard time believing those who leave because of belief issues." Don’t disregard the legitimacy of these people's change of heart. It’s not your call to make. You don’t know their minds or their hearts.

Also, you say that "you have a problem" with my post. However, you reiterate the fact that it is not easy to face the world without the church’s core beliefs. (Which is what I was trying to point out in the first place; you just chose to do so with a different tone.) This post was written to express how and why my personal perspective has changed on how “easy” it is.

Furthermore, I don't think that people who become estranged from something they once subscribed to as sacred ever "expect" it to be easy.

“I don’t feel sorry for people who leave.” How Christ-like of you. Enjoy watching over those 99 sheep of yours, Eric.

My tone must have been extrordinarily bad. Sorry.

So, help me understand how a person who leaves the church (the Kingdom of God, the revealed godpel of Jesus Christ) for reasons of religious belief is a legitamate thing to do. Do you suspect they have real personal revelation for doing this? What are they basing their decisions on?

I agree with you that leaving the church is not easy, but I have a hard time respecting that road when it is based on some religious belief claim. I have a hard time seeing this a s a right and proper choice. Something God wants or has told them to do.

Furthermore, I have two sisters who have been inactive for many years, and a brother who was for more than a decade. I also home teach three families/people who are inactive. I care greatly for these people and others who are inactive or who left the church. But with these people, they are not making some doctrinal stand on a religious belief principle (as far as I know). In the case of my brother he openly told me he stopped coming because he felt less guilt when he didn't come to church.

When I say I do not feel sorry for these people (you slightly mis-quoted me) I was talking of people who leave based on some religious belief claim. Sorry you think I am so un Christlike. You really got me there - good one.

So, thinking about this more.....

When I say I have a hard time feeling sorry for these people it is in a general sense. Certainly it is a shame if they have lost friends and relationships over this type of thing, and I am sympathetic to that. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for the general stand they are taking. Where I am coming from is this - you have kept things very general and vague. Yet you have called this situation legitamate, and worthy of respect. So I am making a fairly big assumption here. The assumption is that at some level they are saying:

"I am right and the church and prophet are wrong"

Is this a fair general assumption of what the people you are defending are saying? Perhaps some specific example of a religious belief stand they are taking would help me.

Someone in the situation you describe who are making a legitamate claim that is worthy of respect against the Mormon church would have to base this claim on something. Personal revelation? What? What are examples of such claims that are legitamate and worthy of respect?

Anyway, I would hope we could discuss things like this without publically calling someone un Christlike. Feel free to disagree with me on any topic you like. I will neve call you unChristlike for doing so.

Eric,

Apparently you and I committed the same sin: we both misquoted each other. I did not call you unChristlike. I (mis)quoted you and used sarcasm. Which seems to be the exact same thing you’ve done in the following sentence: “Sorry you think I am so un Christlike. You really got me there - good one.”

You have asked for clarifications. And, I apologize, but I simply cannot clarify all that you have asked me to clarify. I’ll do my best though…

First request for clarification:
“Help me understand how a person who leaves the church (the Kingdom of God, the revealed gospel of Jesus Christ) for reasons of religious belief is a legitimate thing to do. Do you suspect they have real personal revelation for doing this? What are they basing their decisions on?”

It’s legitimate to leave a church if you are following the dictates of your conscience. Again, I’m going to refer to the 11th Article of Faith here: “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.” I don’t want to start saying what I suspect happens in the minds or hearts of these people because then we’ll just get into a discussion that’s based on my hypothesis. And I don’t feel that would be helpful. I will say that I know people who left not because they didn’t want to deal with the guilt, or because they didn’t fit in, or because they really wanted a smoke, but because their conscience told them it was wrong.

Second request for clarification:
"Where I am coming from is this - you have kept things very general and vague. Yet you have called this situation legitimate, and worthy of respect. So I am making a fairly big assumption here. The assumption is that at some level they are saying: "I am right and the church and prophet are wrong" Is this a fair general assumption of what the people you are defending are saying? Perhaps some specific example of a religious belief stand they are taking would help me."

This post was general. But it was not vague in terms of the group of people I was discussing. I defined this group of people as “those who leave because they no longer believe.” I suspect that this group would say simply, “I don’t believe anymore.”

Yes, I respect people who have the courage to stand up for their beliefs. Especially when it means leaving what is familiar. Right or wrong doctrinally, I respect the principle of staying true to oneself and having the courage to change.

I really would like to emphasize the purpose of this post: The purpose of this post was to discuss how and why my opinion regarding how “easy” it is to leave the church because one no longer believes has changed. We agree on the heart of the issue.

Also, in what you have expressed regarding having a difficult time feeling sorry for people who leave the church because of belief issues, I think that what you’re really saying (and please tell me if I’m wrong) is this: You have a difficult time understanding/seeing eye-to-eye with their thought process and/or belief system. And I think that’s completely understandable.

Lastly, I apologize for retaliating with such severity. I (mis)read your initial response with a tone of belligerence. I’m a fight fire with fire kind of woman. It’s unChristlike of me, I know. Readers, be warned.

I think it's like Schrodinger's cat. The grass really is greener on the other side until you walk on it (or take a brief trip in someone else's shoes).

It's way too easy for people to believe they know what others "should" do and believe - and that "should" nearly *always* aligns with what the first person is doing or believing. I have a deep and abiding testimony of the Restoration, and it gives me incredible peace and joy. I really do think that the world would be a glorious place if everyone in it understood what I understand and felt the peace and joy I feel.

Having said that, what I want most for myself and my children is to be able to believe what I believe and live spiritually as I want to live - without ridicule and with acceptance of my choice even when that choice is not what others desire. As Tess quoted, I want to "follow the dictates of [my] own conscience." My understanding of the pre-existence and the second great commandment compels me to "allow them the same privilege."

Eric, I might have a hard time understanding someone else's decision when it is different than mine, and that difficulty is exacerbated when that decision is to walk away from what I hold so dear, but I think it is this situation precisely that tests how strongly I truly believe what I say I believe. This next point might come across a bit harshly, but I don't mean it to do so.

Jesus stressed this basic point in the Sermon on the Mount when he said, "For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?" (Matt. 5:46-47) If you understand and feel sorry only for those who never had any understanding of the Restoration, but don't have that same empathy for those who have left the Church, you really are no different than the examples Jesus offered. I would submit, humbly and knowing I am going out on a limb not knowing you well enough to make any informed judgment, that this is a lesson that you need to learn - the power of full empathy and respect for the agency of all.

Fwiw, the people Tess describes are the ones for whom it is easiest for me to "feel sorry." I have extended family and friends who have faced and are facing these doubts, and I have come to understand that they are real and sincere and painful and frightening. For many who leave the Church, especially recent converts, leaving really is the "easy" path; for others, especially many who were raised in the Church, leaving is not "easy" in any way, shape or form.

I've known a few people who have chosen to leave the Church for one reason or another, and it's certain that I wish they had stayed. It's not because I think I'm right and they're wrong -- it's because I believe that being in the Church brings the greatest peace and joy, and it saddens me that they don't feel that way.

However, everyone does have to choose for themselves what they believe and how they will act on their beliefs. That is one of God's greatest gifts to us, right up there with life itself -- the power to choose for ourselves.

And it's certainly not easy to leave. It's certainly not easy to stay. In fact, there's nothing easy about life, no matter how you choose to live it. But the joy comes from keeping the eye on the goal while you're enduring your struggles. The joy is in seeing yourself grow closer to Heavenly Father as you do His will, despite what your challenges would ordinarily dictate that you do.

And great discussion, guys -- now, back to your own corners until the bell rings. :)

My last attempt at a comment didn't take. Have I been banned? I will try to duplicate what I just wrote.

Ding. Ding. (Is that a bell I hear?)

I hope you can charitably understand that when I say 'I have a hard time feeling sorry for these people' what I am really saying is 'I have a hard time having sympathy for their cause'.

In further explanation, I start from the assumption that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church, and that it is the only place to access the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. And it is the only place to receive the ordinances necessary for a fullness of salvation. So if I hear of somebody leaving the church for religious reasons I assume that they are wrong-headed in some way.

So if the show was on the other foot, and I was a Methodist, and one of my children came across the missionaries and informed me that they wanted to join the Mormon church, I would also assume that they were wronge-headed. And if they wanted my respect, they would need to do something like bear testimony of the first vision, or the Book of Mormon, or the Plan of Salvation, or something like that. They would need to explain to me how their prayers have been answered regarding this decision. Then I would begin respecting their decision.

So I think it is reasonable to feel the same way in reverse. And if someone leaving the church wants people like me (you know - offensive, obnoxious, self-righteous, unChristlike jerks) to respect them, they should probably be prepared to share some specifics, and what those specifics are based on.

I do believe in the long run that the sincere truth seeker will be just fine. But I do not believe that everyone who leaves the church is doing so because they are a sincere truth seeker. That would take a specific explanation, and some form of 'testimony'.

Well, back to my corner. Feel free to disqualify me if you want.