You can only make this assumption if you also believe that all bits of information can be instantly (no time) be transmitted between intelligences. One also has the problem of 'transmit power': In the physical world (think radio/tv) it takes energy to broadcast information. Where does an intelligence can an infinite amount of energy to communicate with God? If we reduce the energy requirements from broadcast to directed, then how does an intelligence learn the present location of God when God is an infinite distance away?

We also have the problem of filtering. If God's body is fixed (in size) then we must assume so is his 'storage capacity' (i.e., his brain) . Can God possibly accept an infinite amount of intelligence every instant, or must he filter out the uninteresting data? Just the identifying information from intelligence X must be infinite in length (because there is an infinite number of intelligences).

Now on to storage. Where is all this information stored? I think we have three choices: in the intelligences, in God's mind, or 'off-site'. How does God recall the past (including his past*)? 1) Ask the intelligences to retransmit? 2) Search through an infinite amount of data stored in his finite mind? 3) Access an infinite storage device that isn't in his mind? *If God has a non-infinite body then he has to have a notion of time: "before I was there, now I'm here"

All of these solutions appear to take an infinite amount of time/space/energy, don't they?


Just to make this more mind blowing assume:
1) An infinite procession of Gods (each with a name)
2) Our God was once a man (e.g., NOT all knowing)

At some point in time our God had to transition from not all-knowing (like a man) to all knowing (like a god). By definition this all knowing process had to including learning the names of the infinite number of Gods before him. How long does it take for a non-god (assuming one can't be labeled a god until one is all-knowing) to learn an infinite number of names?

42 (The answer to life the universe and everything).

So, there are a few details to work out with this silly theory. Also, it is not fair that your comment is more interesting than my post.

Yes, this does assume some type of instant communication, energy issues, etc.

I think multiple Gods (or gods) might help matters.

All in all, theologically describing an omni-this and omni-that God is a difficult if not impossible quest. That is why I usually go with a non-absolute version.

Thanks for the interesting comment. Sorry I don't have great answers.

I don't think omniscience requires that God know the name of every God that came before him, but that that information could be given him were he to require it. The same with all the other eternal minutia necessary to be a god.

"Can God possibly accept an infinite amount of intelligence every instant, or must he filter out the uninteresting data?"

Recall that not even a sparrow will fall or a hair of our heads drop out without God noticing, as the scriptures say. This seems to suggest that He takes note of it all. Which suggests unfathomable powers of both multi-tasking and focus, if such a paradoxical combination exists.

As to brain storage capacity, Isaiah writes that there is no searching his [God's] understanding, which interpreted in a technological way implies instant recall of everything. No digging in memory, eveything's in "cache".

But this number must be infinite, or there would come a time when God would run out of intelligences.

Nah. Recycling is an eternal principle Eric...

Besides, your model assumes one divine person is the one God but our scriptures indicate that the one God is more than one divine person. (At a minimum it is three)

I think the most realistic interpretation of omnipresent is that his Spirit can be felt everywhere, and in my opinion that is the means by which God knows what is going on at any given time. There are not very many things I know of a certainty, but one of them is that God knows what I am thinking and responds in kind.

That doesn't mean that I think that every cubic centimeter of space is filled with divine intelligence, but rather by some means spiritual communication takes place over a physical,energy and information bearing field.

I suspect that this field is almost certainly superluminal, and quantum mechanics provides more than enough evidence of the possibility of that.

yes quantum mechanics is certainly the solution to the transmission time problem stated in comment 1

It's funny how a Big Bang theory could be easier to accept over an eternal round with no creation... Damn my linear mindset!

Literal omnipresence does fly in the face of an embodied God, I agree. Mark D's mention of an omnipresent Spirit/Holy Ghost correlated with how most people reconcile that conflict--God must be a spirit. As Geoff noted, the Godhead concept allows both to be true.

One curious aspect of omnipresence comes from the people that they could feel God/Jesus was right there with them on occasion. Can the Spirit project a 'hologram a la Star Trek', so that the person would have that physical presence without Heavenly Father or Jesus 'in person'. Or would you say a lot of them really don't have a Diety literally with them, they just feel the Spirit strongly? Maybe intelligences fit in there somehow...

SteveG(3) I don't either. Sometimes I feel that the omni's don't mean what we think they mean.

Michaela: I admire your faith. Yet I desire to attept to remove some of the paradoxes from my mind.

GeoffJ: I am not opposed to recycling. But I think multiple Gods actual strengthens this model rather than weakening it.

MarkD: I almost always like what you say. This time I will have to look up subluminal, and will have to think about the quantum mechanics bit.

Tea: I do not think spirits help anything. I believe that spirits have matter associated with them, and are in bodily form. I don't think spirits can be omnipresent any more than embodied flesh and bone beings. I am not sure about intelligences though. Also, I think there could be some forms of spiritual communication that can feel like it comes from God, but actually comes from an angelic administrator. The ministering of angels.

Thanks Eric. "Superluminal" means faster than light, by the way. Quantum mechanics has some forms of communication occurring instantaneously, although the nature of that communication is a matter of considerable debate.

Even if we solve the distance problem with Quantum mechanics we haven't solved the identity problem. If there is an infinite amount of intelligences then the name of each intelligence must be infinitely long or there is a name collusion problem and God would not know which intelligence sent the message. Even if God maps intelligence names to location (from a fixed point), given an infinite number of intelligences (Eric's premise), there is still an infinite number of locations, therefore still a infinitely long "source" name/location per message. How does one/God get past the infinite length "packet header" (which contains the intelligence source id) to the packet data? How does one/God 'timestamp' (another infinite sequence?) this data for later retrieval?

And we haven't even discussed knowledge of the future (among God and intelligences) problem!

Oh, I don't buy absolute foreknowledge of the future either.

And I think all intelligences are named 'Dave'.

Don't you mean named 'Hal'? 8-)

I think this speculation is hampered by adherence to a 3D worldview. Who's to say what omnipresence really means in a multidimensional universe?

ed. ed is to say.

Eric,

I take God to be omnipresent only in so far as He is able to exert His influence anywhere, and omniscient only in so far as He is able to see at will anywhere.

I don't personally believe, at all, the God is simultaneously aware of every grain of sand on every seashore on an infinite number of worlds. I view this as a step towards believing in a God who sits atop a topless throne, and is big enough to fill the universe but small enough to dwell in our heart. I take the sparrows fall and similar scriptures to be figurative. So far as I can tell, this has not effectied my faith in praying to Him one bit, as I have long experience having my prayers answered, and know there is a mechanism set up to see that is done.

I take as typical, rather than a one off, Sec 138, where it is described how Christ was able to teach the spirits in prison, though He only had three days to do it. ~

TP:

It seems our views on this are quite similar.